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Drunken Badgers of Feathermoon • View topic - Tier token loot rules

Drunken Badgers of Feathermoon

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 Post subject: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:40 pm 
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can we bottom out on the whole tier set token loot rules? i really didn't like the "on the fly" rule from last week's raid.

The concern seems to be:
- Each week we have a new sub and they will walk away with all the tokens, and our regulars will never get tokens for offspecs (and our regular's offspecs often contribute substantially to the raid).

Is this accurate?

if so, i suggest the following -- tokens are bid or greed only. no needs. anyone can greed including subs. this gives a regular's offspec an equal shot at getting the token as the sub, which i think is more fair than telling subs they can't role on tokens.

the other option is better establishing which regular's can need for offspec gear (we almost need a 4th option in the loot mod -- "need for offspec", that is between need and greed, and only designated regulars are allowed to use this option).


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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:31 pm 
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How about we keep it simple, and make tier tokens only rollable if you have attended the raid more than 3 times on the current toon? Thereby eliminating subs from going hog wild and getting geared up on their 1st run, it aligns well with our SK bid activation too.

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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:29 pm 
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So make it you can only roll if you're on the SK list? This makes it even worse for subs... they don't get to roll at all. If we are so concerned about giving regulars the chance to gear up for off specs I think we would be better served to identify who those people are and allow them to roll need under the current rules. We could even maintain a sep list in the SK mod called 'offspec' just to keep track of who is allowed to bid/need on off spec gear.

The whole point of our system is if you really want it you bid. Let's not make things more complicated than they need to be imo.

People who can need to gear their offspec:
Judrog
Rev
Mog

who else?

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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:11 am 
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No Jez, you can only roll on tier tokens if on the SK list..since they are the most valuable item in raids overall, it makes sense to reserve them for ppl that have attended at least 3 times. Every other drop is fair game. So we can simply deny that 1 night pugger from cleaning house with winning RNG needs rolls to complete their 4 pc in 1 run and never see them again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:43 pm 
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1. I would argue whether tier tokens are the most valuable items in the raid overall. For some classes you only want 2pc tier not 4pc. To Tippy right now an AP trinket is probably the most valuable item.

2. IF they are the most valuable item then people should BID for them. The whole point of the SK list is to enable regulars to win items without competing with subs.

3. If the issue here is people who need to gear up offspecs then why not allow them to bid. If we deny non regulars the chance to even roll what happens to those tokens which are pretty much useless to the raid now - aka the warrior, hunter, priest tokens?

The argument you are using YJ is exactly the reason we came up with the loot system we have now. If people are holding out and camping the top of the list for one item that is not a tier token then clearly tier tokens aren't that important to them.

I find it hard to believe that there are all these people missing out on tokens to puggers, except perhaps for the druid, rogue etc etc token. If there are regulars who still need tokens then an option is to identify them and only let them bid/roll on the token.

To sum up: I don't agree with the proposed solution as I think the management of the issue is inherent in the existing rules, or by a small change to allow certain off specs valuable to the raid to bid/need.

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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:13 am 
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Since your lootmaster now, the decision is yours to define loot rules. I'm fine if you want to post an exception list on the main loot rules thread for those that can need role on offset items. My point I guess is it really depends on the phase of the current content we are in, like for example now with almost all regs having their main set the tokens become useless for some. When we 1st start into content where no one has a set piece the tokens are definitely of higher value at that time. Maybe I'm getting memory block in my old age but didn't we have tighter loot rolling restrictions on people on their 1st time raiding with us or was that back in TBC?

I think those we approve for offset need will be responsible enough to know when a reg's main set spec would benefit the raid more that item to concede, these are the raid officers in the list aat any rate who are trustworthy raiders that will not abuse that privilege.

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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:36 am 
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Yeah Jud is correct. We should protect tier tokens for regulars that may play dual roles in the main raid over subs and/or pugs. I am fine telling a sub they have to wait 3 weeks to roll on tier tokens OR that they can roll greed knowing a regular that still needs a token for any set gets to roll need for OS. That way main sets for regulars are still bid, OS for regulars is need, and pugs/subs are greed. subs and pugs could still win if no regular needs it.

All this is for tokens only. All other loot rules would not change.

Just my 2 cents. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:02 pm 
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as jez says -- i think leaving the current rules but allowing a few designated regulars to need tokens for offsets is fine. those designated regulars can use judgment not to need against regulars' mainsets. this is probably the simplest solution for the loot master to administrate. something about telling subs that they can't need tokens at all leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

also agree that this is ultimately Jez's call.


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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:40 am 
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I'd like to keep the existing system as much as possible since it has worked really well for so long.

My preference would be to allow certain people to roll need for offspecs that we decide here in the forums (not during a raid) will benefit the raid.

I would add an extra condition that these "offspec need" rolls are not allowed to ever compete will a regular "need" roll. Gearing up main sets should come first then offsets then greeds.

My suggestion of people authorised to "offspec need" (should this option be chosen):
Rev - enhance
Judrog - ret and/or tank?
Ducky - dps (or tank if he's dps, depending on the raid)
Nuadort - boomkin (has he been around long enough?)


I would also support Jud's suggestion of bid or greed on tokens but this is a clear 2nd preference in my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:26 pm 
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I haven't commented as I've waited this week to see any more feedback from other officers. As the raid is tomorrow I'd better make a decision now I guess :)

Like Jud, telling subs that they can't roll anything but greed on a tier token leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Although they are subs they still contribute to our success. Therefore I'm going with the modification to the rule that allows people gearing offspecs that are approved by the raid to need on a token. Subs can still roll need or greed.

Mog suggested that approved offspec rollers shouldn't be able to roll against mains. I say the main can bid as their trump, so all's fair in RNG land.

Based on this thread I will create a list of 'approved people to roll need on tokens for offspecs' which I will broadcast at the beginning of the raid.

On that list:
Rev
Jud
Mog


Ducky is not a regular, and I don't think Nuadort is either. Only regulars should go on this list.

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 Post subject: Re: Tier token loot rules
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:29 am 
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