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Drunken Badgers of Feathermoon • View topic - Cataclysm Raiding Vote

Drunken Badgers of Feathermoon

Knock one back for the Drunken Badgersh!
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What would you rather raid come Cata?
Poll ended at Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:36 pm
10-man -- oh i long for DB Kara/ZA days! 100%  100%  [ 9 ]
25-man -- Paragon has nuttin on DB! 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Bah, I don't want to raid in Cata 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 9
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 Post subject: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 3:36 pm 
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I'd like to formally collect everyone's feedback on whether they would like to raid 10-man or 25-man on Friday nights come Cataclysm. I think it is important to decide this now as it plays into what we do between now and Cata, and how hard we try to recruit.

Raiding in Cata will be changed as follows (thanks to Ziv for the nice summary):

Quote:
Just to make it clear Blizzard has announced that they want to bring the 10 man CLOSER to the 25 man in terms of what it does. 10 man raids are going to drop the EXACT SAME gear as 25 man raids. They are also going to be WAY HARDER than the 10 mans of today and are going to be closer to the level of the 25 mans of today. Also to be noted although the 10 mans will drop the exact same gear as the 25. The 25 will still drop SLIGHTLY more gear per person than the 10 does. So what does this mean? Well 25 leet A-game players will probably gear up slightly faster than 10 of the same leet A-game players. At the same time 20Leet A-game players +5 down syndrome chimps. Will probably fall far behind a good group of 10 leet a-game players. For those who haven't read up on all this the one other change is that you can only get locked to one version of the instance 10 or 25. there is no more doing 2 raids a week of the same instance. Also (and this may be an advantage to our one day a week gig) Blizzard has decided to design all future raid content around having 3-5 raids with 2-4 bosses each per raid versus having 1-2 raids with 8-12 bosses per raid for each new level of content. Say goodbye to Ulduar/Naxx style raiding they have opened the door to the ToC style low trash high boss instances we seem to do well in.


Notes:
1) I'm not making "both" an option as i don't think it is very viable to do both 25-man and 10-man in a 5 hour block.
2) Rhaeyn/Cliff/Zoble feel free to vote if you plan to come back for Cata (it goes without saying that we want you to!)
3) A 10 man raid would pretty much just be the whiskey officers.

Please make comments so i know how each person voted. don't be anonymous!

-Jud


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:16 pm 
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I voted for 10 mans, though I love the epic feel of the 25s, at the end of the day it takes over twice as many ppl to manage and twice the effort in all areas to manage a raid of that size. I am sure the initial excitement and demand will be out there to fill a 25 man but I want to raid with a set of ppl who I know will stick it out with me for the long haul. I can say after the rolling exodus of some of our core best officers and players it was a rough stint recruiting pugs in trade because forums did not produce any good candidates.

When I'm grouped with like minded ppl that are hardcore into strategically anaylzing how to beat an encounter the collective group's learning curve is exponential and success just happens faster, I don't get that in 25s right now. We have been close but there will always be that 15-20% that just show up to hang out and get gear.

I never got to raid Kara/ZA with the Badgers but Chaser once we got over the 1st raid night learning curve and still achieved tribute to skills, mad skillz, and insanity in 3 weeks of effort is what I'm looking for. After that everyone came to raid buffed and we just started the pull..everyone did their jobs, ppl pulled out clutch wins if mistakes happened and each owned up to any fails they had and moved on to do better the next time. We had a good time, we were the topped gear folks on the server and managed a shared server 1st week.

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Last edited by Yellowjacket on Wed May 26, 2010 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:49 pm 
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I enjoy both. In fact would like to do both. But given an option to only pick one or the other. 10 man is my vote. I have enjoyed it slightly more for DB raiding and I just cant be sure no matter how optomistic I am that we will be able to pull 25 good players together every week that bring their A game. 10 we can do fo sure


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:17 pm 
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I voted 10 man. Similarly to the other comments - I would love to do a successful 25 but there are always the 'chimps' as Ziv so elegantly puts it, that drag the rest of the raid down. I DO hanker to some degree for the days of yore where we tore up Kara and ZA with a tightly knit and high performing team ;) and yes also the administrative overhead is so much less with a ten man.

I guess my only caveat is that it will suck if there is one uber ten man team and .5 of an uber team that ends up stuck with a bit of chimpery. I remember we tried running two 10 mans for ZA, it didn't really work that well and I was in the not so good group and a bit resentful of my leet buddies in the more successful group. I can't quite remember how it all went down but we eventually ended up with one uber 10 man doing the timed runs and that was good times man, good times.

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:54 pm 
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Also 10. Regarding the split, we should take a look at 'how much' people are willing to raid - if they're non-Aussies there's nothing stopping one 10-man running multiple nights outside the usual Whiskey timeslot, if that's what people want to do; and another 10-man running a one-night "express" raid in the usual Whiskey timeslot (which is friendlier to the Australian players).

Good poll Jud :P

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:28 am 
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when we moved to 25s back in TBC, it was to see more content and get better gear. those incentives seem to be gone with Cata. and all that is left is the administrative headache and frustration caused by the 5 fire-standers. there is some slight sense of accomplishment of getting 25 people to do something right all at the same time that you don't get with 10 man, but it doesn't really outweigh the benefits of a smaller, easier to manage group. with our 1 night/week raid, it seems we would be more successful as a 10 man and achieve the progression we want.

i don't think we try to organize 2 10 mans in cata. we form the best 10 man we can, and let other DB'ers pick up a second 10 man if they like.

PS -- someone voted and didn't comment!


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:06 pm 
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I'm not sure if I'll come back or not.

If I do, it would be for 10 man raiding. So that's what I voted for.

But as Jez put it, I don't want to see the type of 10 mans where we have 2 like in the ZA days. Where one of the groups clears it in an hour, and the other can't kill the 2nd boss. Or whatever.

I would not want to come back to be stuck on the B team :P

It may be reasonable to do 2 raid nights then... one aussie friendly in the whiskey time slot and one less aussie friendly on another night. Then those who can't make one may be able to make the other and we could sub for each other occasionally.

But so far I'm not really missing playing WoW. I miss talking with and hanging out with some of the individuals but not the actual game :P


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:04 pm 
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We..good to see our friends still hang out to chat in forums :)


So by the looks we are leaning towards a 10 man, officers get 1st dibs in class and roles or opting out, the makeup may look like such:


Tank-Judrog
Tank-*reserved for The Cliff?*
DPS-Tippy
DPS-Ahri
DPS-YJ
DPS-*reserved for Moonkin?*
DPS-*reserved for Zoble kitty?*
Switch Healer- Revpardoctor
Healer - Ziv
Healer - Malizz

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 3:38 pm 
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just a slight lean toward 10, eh?

if we are going to go 10s in Cata, i think we should start more whiteboard about the raid composition we'd like to have, then figure out how our current roster and preferences would fit into it. perhaps we'd want a few folks to switch mains for Cata? i haven't really looked into Cata much -- has anyone seen threads on optimal 10-man raid comps for Cata? should we be striving for one of each class? or will it not matter much?

i would like to bring our A game w/ 10s.

Tank 1 Pally
Tank 2 (DPS) DK
Healer 1 Druid
Healer 2 Priest
Healer 3 (DPS) Shammy
DPS 1 Lock
DPS 2 Mage
DPS 3 Rogue
DPS 4 Hunter
DPS 5 (Tank) Warrior


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:05 pm 
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From what I have been reading about Cata, they are consolidating buffs so that unique class comps outside of roles would be less necessary, e.g. hunter pets could bring a raid buff pet near equivalent to a missing class buff similar to scrolls of kings etc. My hope is that they refine this well enough that they get us closer to "bring the player" not the class vision they originally had in WOTLK. Here are some other notes on raid buff consolidation.

http://www.stratfu.com/blog/kyth/2010/0 ... anges-list

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:07 am 
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Honestly, the only reason we went 25 was so that we could see new content that wasn't available to the orignal 10 people - not because we wanted find new folks. 10s have really fleshed out- every raid, including heroic raids.

The problem with 25s is that you have much less personal influence on the raid. Once anyone stops performing to their extreme (or doesn't have a very high extreme, but was a necessary body), then they drag the rest of the raid down. This accumulated and became much too casual of a raid for Cliff. He stopped having fun, and a few months later quit. I felt the same way, the raid stopped being a highlight of my week months ago. I stuck it out for longer, but the added weight of Cliff not playing (and constantly inviting me to other Friday night activities), working overtime (I love OT now that I'm hourly!), and beautiful weather eventually made the time hard to spare for wow.

We have enough good people to make two simultaneous 10s with our core raiders. With Cata coming out, we can plan our mains so that we have balanced raids. Neither one needs to be the "B" team due to missing a key ability (like aoe tanking in ZA when we split a 25). In true badger style, we're sure to make it race between the two.

If later we decide to combine the 10s and add some friends to make a secondary raid in the beta time slot (6pm Saturdays), that's fine. But what I really want is Chaser as my main raid in a timeslot that I can stay awake for.

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:36 pm 
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I voted for 10--fewer chances at weak links.


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:57 pm 
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I didn't have a shot at voting but I would agree wholeheartedly.

As a guild we've formed some extremely powerful 10 man comp raids (Chaser one shotting ToGC was an excellent example) and I think it fosters everyone in the 10 man to perform to peak.

Halexx hit it on the head, with a 10 man group it's unlikely to have 3 - 5 weak links that are bringing the raid down.

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:04 am 
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i was thinking about cata 10-man and ziv's idea a while back -- we should have a 12 man regluar roster so 2 people can have a break each week. this will allow for some absences without hampering progression. it is tough to maintain good subs over time.


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Some friends got me drunk over the weekend and I tricked myself into playing again. I'll be rather casual at first, probably just leveling with said friends. If I keep interested in the game, I will play in a 10-man on Friday nights and also try to spool up a 25-man progression raid for the guild on some other night(s).

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:08 pm 
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Yay Cliffton.

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:40 pm 
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w00t, the king has returned!


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Hooraaaay.


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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:13 am 
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Hooray for the king! But wherefore are thou Mooooooooooooooonkin?

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 Post subject: Re: Cataclysm Raiding Vote
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:22 am 
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WB stranger!..Rehab should be taken slow..no need to binge WoW and leave us again :wink:

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